Smart grid vitocal 151-A not working

[micron01]

Hi community and Flo,

I'm from Belgium and try to explain my problem in english.

I have since this week a vitocal 151-A heatpump and i already have a Fronius gen 24 for six months.

Before i had the heatpump i did already set everything up for working with the smart grid in the future.

I'm elektrician myself and made a installation with two finder relais and cabling everything with the fronius inverter. I did follow the suggestions of Fronius.

When i set everything in the menu of the inverter, everything is working good, such as closing the relais when i have enough power from the inverter.

I know also the schematic from the heatpump, i did read a lot before and search everywhere and did get also a lot of information here.

My cabling is as follow:  when i have the first surplus of power, the contact 143.1 close with 143.5 (contactA), when i have another surplus of energy extra, then contact 143.1 close also with 143.4 (contactB)

I know also the 4 different status, 1 is the block signal of the electricy company ( we don't use that in Belgium)                                        2 then is the heatpump working normally

                                                      3 is a signal for recommendation for extra rising the temperature and the water                                             4 is a signal for forced working and heating the water to maximum settings and temperature of the heatpump.

But now the problem with the heatpump: when the contact of my two relais are open, so there is no contact between 143.1 and 143.4 or 143.5 or both. The heatpump switch to stand 3 or 4. sometimes

it is 10 seconds or a minut or so, but the heatpump don't go back to 2 the normal working status. Also when i loose the wire of both contact 143.4 and 143.5 on the site where the two relais are, the problem still resist.

so it is certainly not a problems of the relais. maybe it has to be with the cables from the heatpump to the relais.

I already use 3 different cables: a 5G0.75mm² , then the same cable but with a shield around (Liycy)

and also a 5G2,5mm² that i put on the floor far away from other power cables. 

Has it something to do with induction, i don't know.

I hope someone can help me

thanks and regards

[micron01]

I have talked with my installer and send him some photo's

Also did i test the same situation but with  two cables, one for the 230v 143.1 and another for the signal from the inverter. I put one cable on the ground (230v 143.1) and the other is shielded with the contact signal(143.4 and 143.5).

The problem is better but still resist, because when status 3 is active, the wire for status 4 get also the induction voltage in the same cable.

I measure two times 7 volt on 143.4 with two different status (3 and 4) from the heatpump. (see photo's)

[micron01]

@Flo_Schneider  ?

I also want to add that when i release the wire from contact 143.4 or 143.5 on the heatpump, then the status return back to normal immediately (status 2)

best regards

[mbauer666]

Hi Micron

I have made the same observations (https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Waermepumpe-Hybridsysteme/Smart-Grid-Ansteuerung-durch-Fehle...), here in the forum you can find other similar examples.
Unfortunately, there is no statement from Viessmann. And from @Flo_Schneider the only statement is that there is no problem with it, or no one has reported a problem yet.
What can help is an RC element, like this one https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B001ZR28BQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

in between.

But actually, I expect from a new heat pump that it works without additional components and effort.

Greetings Marc

[micron01]

Hi Marc,

Thank you for your answer, i'll check also the other topic and your link to the RC element.

The heatpump is just one week installed and i want to be careful with everything, for the warranty.

I'm in contact with my installer and i hope he has giving feedback to Viessmann already.

I don't understand why they don't using the 24 volts for the contacts of the SG contacts. The voltage is already in the heatpump above. 

I ask myself if there is already somenone that can use the SG as it meant to be working.

I know it works in older heatpumps. But the 150 and 250 serie i don't know yet.

greetings 

[mbauer666]

Hi Micron,

this won't help you, but the threads describe the identical issue and for sure, there are more I did not know. 

I can well imagine that many owners of the 150, 250 heat pump models and PV systems with Smart Grid activated have not yet noticed that their heat pump permanently runs on status 3.

https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Waermepumpe-Hybridsysteme/PV-mit-Waermepumpe-Vitocal-250-verb...

https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Waermepumpe-Hybridsysteme/Vitocal-250-A-in-Verbindung-mit-Fro...

https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Waermepumpe-Hybridsysteme/250-SH-Aktive-Information-I-115-Sma...

https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Waermepumpe-Hybridsysteme/Optimierung-Vitocal-250A/td-p/31050...

[micron01]

Hi all,

@Marc i can confirm that what you tried before is not working (the 5 steps) because i did the same with the same results.

I also tried to ground all the not necesarry wires and the shield ( yellow heat shrink tubing)

from the signal cable. (see photo)

My relais are for sure good, if the contact is open there is 0 voltage on the contact.

greetings

[micron01]

@Flo Schneider or other technicians from Viessmann.

Can you confirm Viessmann is working on a solution for this? I invested a lot for this installation (Fronius Gen 24 plus, BYD battery and the new Vitocal heatpump) and waited 1 full year to have finally my heatpump.

I have still a lot of power surplus the next months for using the Smart Grid. That is also why i've  choosen

the Gen24, it is very easy to work with the digital outputs and the Finder relais.

But now i can't use it because the electronics of the smart grid contacts are so sensitive.

And i don't want to work with 3 different cables for just switching two contacts.

It would be great that someone from Viessmann take there responsibility and confirm that there is a problem.

I think the next months there are a lot of people starting a new tread because of this (cable) problem.

For the rest i like the heatpump very much, it is very quiet, and i measure also the elektricity consuming and i like it, it is very efficient.

Greetings to you all

[mbauer666]

you have mentioned the wrong Flo 🙂 @Flo_Schneider, this a question to you and Viessman support.

[Flo_Schneider]

Hello micron01,

if the cables have already been laid and shielded cable has not been used, a relay or contactor should be placed near the indoor unit.

Many greetings
Flo

[micron01]

Hello all, hello Flo,

I didn't want to wait any longer for an answer, so i ordered the RC element from Eltako that is suggested before. I installed it near the relais. I put the neutral on the same neutral from the heatpump. And i used one output of the element parallel on the signal to 143.5 and another parallel to the signal to 143.4.

I can confirm it works great now, i measured  0 volts now, thanks to Marc and other suggestions in other topics.

My cable is only 10 meters from the heatpump to the elektrical distributionbox and the 2 relais. I used one shielded cable, 5G 0.75mm².

As Marc said before, normally this is something Viessmann must be dissolve.

In Belgium nobody answer from Viessmann, they didn't understand what the problem was and thinked i wanted to used the EVU block and send me the wrong manuals with the wrong status explained an so on😏

I hope i don't have other problems in the future because this is not a good service. 

I measure also the full electric power to my heatpump, the inside unit and the outside unit and the elektric heating element, all together.  So i know exactly how much elektricity it used. I knew the elektrical power is calculated, but it is sometimes even the half of what my Fronius Smart meter measure😊

That is not a problem for me, but i use also the thermal power that is calculated in Vicare, so i can have a idea how much money i can safe now. I hope that is trustworthy. Before i had a vitodens 222W gas heating. 

greetings