Thema "Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?" in Wärmepumpe & Hybridsysteme

Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

Lucas_PdC — Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:32:54 GMT

I am trying to understand whether my Vitocal 222-S falls within the scope of EU F - gas regulation "hermetically sealed". The manual I have is from 2018, and so it still mentions the old 3 kg R410A relevant data. Now, in 2021 (but I believe since 2019) the rule has changed, and it now refers to whether or not the refrigerant quantity corresponds to > 5 tons CO2. Unfortunately, 3 kg of R410A corresponds to about 6.4 tons CO2 ... however, if the Vitocal 222-S could be considered "hermetically sealed", according to the EU F - gas regulation, then the 5 tons CO2 limit is increased to 10 tons CO2, which is fine.

On VIESSMANN UK, for the model Vitocal 222-A (https://www.viessmann.co.uk/products/heat-pumps/air-source-heat-pumps/vitocal-222-a-mb which to me looks identical, or anyway very similar to the 222-S) it is explicitly mentioned "No refrigeration leak test due to hermetically sealed cooling circuit". But, is it the same also for the Vitocal 222-S ?

Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

qwert089 — Wed, 07 Apr 2021 19:06:35 GMT

Hi Lucas,

it depends...

the -A Models are "monoblock" and sealed

the -S Models are "split" and not sealed.

The larger S- Models with 2 fans in the outside unit are exceeding the refrigerant quantity limit and in Germany those models need a yearly leak check, probably it's the same in UK?

Is the EU F - gas regulation still valid since Brexit?

How many fans does your outside unit have?

BR Michael

Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

Lucas_PdC — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 10:20:35 GMT

Hi Michael, thanks for the prompt reply.

In fact, I am living in Italy and I thought that 222-A was just the UK country coding for the same model as the Italy country coding 222-S. On the web site photographs look very similar. However, from you clarification I now understand that for the 222-A the external unit probably directly heats (or cool) the water, without need for refrigerant connections to the internal unit, but just water ones. In my Vitocal 222-S the external unit has one fan.

One more point about the EU F - gas regulation is that "hermetically sealed " is also equivalent to a proof that the refrigerant circuit leaks less than 3g/year. Is there any test or certification from Viessmann that this is the case when refrigerant pipes are installed according to standard techniques ?

Moreover, the periodic checks intervals are extended to 2 years if the system implemets ways to detect refrigerant leaks. Would a refrigerant leak always result in Vitotronic displaying some type of fault codes (even indirect ones)?

Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

qwert089 — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 12:03:53 GMT

Hi Lucas,

>>when refrigerant pipes are installed according to standard techniques ?

according to the installation manual the test must be done only with a leak detection spray

>>result in Vitotronic displaying some type of fault codes

at a quite late state it would result in a low pressure error and and alot of ice on the evaporator.

the yearly check is much more detailed

have a look to this operations manual in german language

https://www.viessmann-community.com/t5/Waermepumpe-Hybridsysteme/Anlagenbuch-fuer-Waermeerzeugeranlagen-nach-EN-378/m-p/164134#M25746

where the owner of the Vitocal has to take care about the documenation of the yearly leak check.

e.g. what is the brand and model of the elekronic leack checker and what is the sensitiv threshold of the checker

@Flo_Schneider is there an englich version of the "Betriebshandbuch"

BR Michael

Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

Lucas_PdC — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 12:07:26 GMT

by the way, I have just found out that for the new models Viessmann has switched to refrigerant R32, which would solve the problem (GWP = 675 instead of 2088). But would Viessmann recommend to replace the R410A with the new R32 in a 2019 version of the Vitocal 222-S currently charged with the R410A ? and in that case, how many Kg of R32 would be reuired to replace 3.2 kg of R410A?

Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

qwert089 — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 12:25:39 GMT

R410A contians 50 % R32, but the vapor pressure curve is different.

You can not replace R410a with R32

https://www.daikinchem.de/sites/default/files/pdf/Refrigerants/Daikin_R32_Handling_Brochure_EN.pdf

Yes in Italy Viessmann is selling some Vitocals models with R32, but not in Germany.

Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

Lucas_PdC — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 13:33:48 GMT

Many thanks, then I better wait a bit longer ... as other low GWP solutions specifically meant for R410A direct retrofit replacement, for example the new RS-53 (R470A) with GWP = 909, will soon reach the market.

Best Regards,

Luca

https://www.refsols.com/RS-53.html

Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

qwert089 — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 13:57:25 GMT

the 3 smaler models of the VITOCAL 111-S already are running on R32

https://www.viessmann.it/it/riscaldamento-casa/pompe-di-calore/pompe-di-calore-aria-acqua-split/vitocal-111-s.html

by end of 2021 more models with new refrigerant will be released

https://live.viessmann.com/en/product-innovations/heat-pump-vitocal.html

BR Michael

Betreff: Vitocal 222-S hermetically sealed ?

Lucas_PdC — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 20:29:40 GMT

my Vitocal 222-S is only 14 months old, I am thus not planning to replace it before about 15 years ...

However, if Viessmann confirms that replacing the current R410A with the new RS-53 (R470A), after the end of the two years warranty and through a qualified technician, will likely not damage or impair correct operation of the 222-S, then I would be happy to proceed with said drop-in replacement.

Best Regards

Luca